Please post about the thematic ideas that you see in these stories — do they have things in common? What do they say about the modern American identity? You can write about anything in any of the stories but you must comment about each text in detail and using quotes.
SHOW OFF! BE SMARTIES – LITERARY FOLK.
American Literature After 1865 
these stories were so boring…that is another common theme
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All three stories were set around the same time (1940s/1950s) in small cities of the United States. A theme common to all three stories is the insincere nature of people.
In “Petrified Man” by Eudora Welty, the women are very gossipy and not like the typical woman of that time.They do all sort of manly things, like smoking and working. Even though the story is set in a beauty parlor in the South, the women have very ugly personalities. They do not care about their husbands or children and gossip all the day. For example, Mrs. Fletcher say ““How could Mrs. Pike possibly know I was pregnant or otherwise, when she doesn’t even know me?” This shows that Mrs. Pike is so gossipy that she told other people about Mrs. Fletcher’s pregnancy without even knowing her.
In “The Swimmer”, people are superficial in same way. They judge each other based on the money (the Biswangers) and their life is just spent in cocktail parties and gossiping. When Neddy (Main Character) is swimming through all the swimming pools, he is having fun at the beginning but at the end he says, ““It was probably the first time in his adult life that he had ever cried, certainly the first time in his life that he had ever felt so miserable, cold, tired, and bewildered” (1231).It didn’t mean he was just tired from the swimming. He realized he went through life doing all those parties and trying to show off,but it didn’t mean anything. It was all for show off and now his family and friends were all gone.
Finally, in “Good Country People”, the characters are Southern like in “Petrified Man”, and like the two other stories, people are very image conscious. They do not care about showing their real self, they just wnat to look good. In this story, the main character is polite but still not sincere: “Besides the neutral expression that she wore when she was alone, Mrs. Freeman had two others, forward and rerverse, that she used for all her human dealings” (1395).She also ends up inviting a man to her house just to be polite, but when he is over, she wishes he was not there.
These stories are relate to American identity because it shows a certain region of America and emphasizes on their ways of speaking, like Southern accent. They also show the things Americans are concerned with, like beauty and looking good.
1. In the ” Petrified man ” ,small town people are shown as very gossipy. Do you think this is an accurate portrayal?
2. What do you significance of Joy changing her name to Hulga was, in” Good Country People”?
3.do you think neddy merrill’s journey in “the swimmer” was real or just due to his alcohol imagination?
Reply to Shideh first question
I think small town people are gossipy only because there are not a lot of things to talk about. It might happen in bigger cities but there are so many people there you do not hear about it.
I felt that all these stories showed how people from different regions help make up the American identity.
YEs the American identity is a diversity of things. How each of these people showed different sides.
So to start off the three stories seem to be in all the same time era, or at least it seems like that. In some way they seem to all be related because of the attitudes from the people in them. Whether they are happy, or sad.
In “The Swimmer” the story was actually pretty weird. At first I did not know what was going to happen, or what was happening at that. The only thing I really new was that there was a bunch of old people who liked to party and get drunk. “I drank to much” (1233) seemed to be a very popular thing to say in the beginning. Then when you got into the middle of the story and found out who Neddy Merrill was you almost felt sorry for him and they way he was judged because he seemed to have no money, and it seemed like he did not really enjoy life. Always drinking and going to every party just to be around people it seemed. At the end of the story you almost felt bad for the man, “It was probably the first time in his adult life that he had ever cried” (1240). Nothing seemed to be going right for this poor man.
In good country people the opening line was “Besides the neutral expression that she wore when she was alone, Mrs. Freeman had two others, forward and reverse” (1393). Right from that first opening statement you know that there will already be fake people in this story. As you read on you also find out that most of the other people are all two-faced as well. When Mrs. Hopewell’s daughter changed her name from Joy to Hulga, her own mother could not ever call her by her real name because it was to embarrassing. “She continued to call her Joy to which the girl responded but in a purely mechanical way” (1396). It seemed that these old girls that all got together seemed to be very good friends, but in the end they all have two sides to them. So who knows if the friends will ever see their real sides.
In the last story “Petrified Man” I did not find this story very entertaining. It was pretty boring actually. After readying the title I thought it was going to be about a man in a horror story, or something. Not about women in there daily social life without a care in the world. Not much to really say about this story, other then the fact that there was a lot of gossip and everyone seemed to know everything about everyone, or so it seemed.
And about the question of the American Identity I honestly do thing think it was headed in the right direction for these people. They all seemed to be fake in this story because of there action. They only cared about money and what everyone else thought about them.
So do u believe the American dream is a broken one?
I do think the American dream is a broken one.
Yes I most defiantly think the american dream is broke. Well Actually I guess I would not say broken, but has evolved. As people become more needy and want more and more, then the American dream will only keep evolving with the world and its people.
It can be considered broken if you compare the American life that we live in today to the one in the past century, but for some people it still exists, just look at the statistics related to the amount of immigrants that come to the US every year. Maybe the American dream is not as the same it was but it appears to be still very effective. The idea of “If you work hard you will be rich” shouldn’t be applied to people who work 10-15 years at a fast food restaurant kitchen, or people who don’t go beyond minimum wage. The idea is “To Work Hard”, not only physically but you also have to outsmart the competition. Who are the people we see making fortune nowadays? Doctors, Lawyers (guess what?? They worked really hard while they were in college and it was in most part no physical work) and entrepreneurs – in this category we see all kinds of people, the ones who studies and the ones who became rich, or at least financially stable by having a good idea for a successful business.. so even though the concept of the American dream has apparently changed, it still exists.
I like your analysis of the Swimmer and I found myself interpreting the story along the same lines. I really also felt it was a powerful line when the story said he cried for the first time in his adult life . The morality of the story seems to be about more than just drinking and partying but rather the disrupted lives ppl often lead to attempt to make up for their fallibility. They only forget to recognize that noone is perfect, all it takes is an attempt at perfection to reach the moral zenith, instead of garnering the attention of other fallible individuals.
In Eudora Welty’s “Petrified Man,” the women have jobs and work while Mr. Pike and Fred do not. This story captures an opposite image of how life in the early 1900’s was. The woman in the story seems to be independent and have a thirst for drama. For example, the women go to see the freak show and Mrs. Fletcher is gossiping with Leota, she says “Does Mrs. Pike know everything about you already.” The women like to talk about their lives and their situation especially since Mrs. Fletcher being pregnant. The women are considered to be socially active.
In John Cheever’s “The Swimmer,” Neddy’s swim through the pool shows the change in his life and how he discovers he is unhappy by drinking alcohol. This story relates to the “petrified man” in the fact that both use social means to express occurring problems. This story is Neddy’s path to discovering who he is apart from who he thinks he is. It says, “he was determinedly original and had vague and modest idea of himself as legendary figure” (Cheever 1234). Neddy is going through the process of finding his identity.
In Flannery O’Connor’s “Good Country People,” people seem to hide who they really are. Yet the story shows a hidden meaning that “Everybody is different” (O’Connor 1345). This can be seen in the character of Joy who feels the need to change into a different person by being called Hulga. Out of all the stories I found that this one showed how people truly are individuals and how each person is different from the next.
All stories show how American Identity is diverse and is made from a combination of different images found in an American Society.
I agree that this is a different variation of the american dream in each story. They all have very different people and different morales. That’s what makes up America though, all the different viewpoints and opinions.
Modern American identity during the time of the assigned three short stories showed that the “great social effort involved in fighting World War II reorganized America’s economy and altered its people’s lifestyles. Postwar existence revealed different kinds of men and women” (Baym et al. 1129). Even though Eudora Welty’s “Petrified Man” was a text written in 1941 (Baym et al. 1129), the main character, Leota, was a gossiper, hairdresser, and the town’s news came through her. In Flannery O’Connor’s, “Good Country People,” the divorced Mrs. Hopewell must have been able to afford to have caretakers for her amputee adult daughter, Hulga. The modern American identity was also described “throughout the 1950’s and into the early 1960’s, social critics perceived a stable conformity to American life, a dedication to an increasingly materialistic standard of living” (Baym et al. 1130). The materialistic living was described in the different families with their swimming pools in John Cheever’s “The Swimmer.”
In the three stories mentioned that I read, I find people are not what they seem. For example, there were the fakeness of Mr. Petrie also known as the “Petrified Man,” and the bible salesman in “Good Country People.” In “The Swimmer,” Neddy Merrill comes across some swimming pools that revealed emotional hurt.
In Eudora Welty’s “Petrified Man,” the town’s “travellin’ freak show” (Welty 1152) revealed that one of Mrs. Pike’s acquaintances, Mr. Petrie, was the petrified man in the show who “was wanted for five hundred-dollars cash” (Welty 1156) for rape. This shows that any so-called “freak show” will contain some elements of hoaxes. In Flannery O’Connor’s, “Good Country People,” what seems to be on appearance a God serving bible salesman turns out to be a fake. He turned the tide on Hulga and made her the vulnerable one because “without the leg she felt entirely dependent on him” (O’Connor 1406).
The adventurer and dreamer, Neddy Merrill, in “The Swimmer” by John Cheever, reveals his hurtful pride while attempting to swim well-to-do Biswanger’s pool. The bartender at the pool “served him but he served him rudely” (Cheever 1239) and he heard Mrs. Cheever say behind his back, “they (The Merrill’s) went for broke overnight – nothing but income – and he showed up drunk one Sunday and asked us to loan him five-thousand dollars” (Cheever 1239). His pride was further hurt after swimming through an ex-lover’s pool because he thought “if he had suffered any injuries at the Biswangers’ they would be cured” (Cheever 1240) at Shirley Adam’s place.
In Flannery O’Connor’s, “Good Country People,” was there any hint that the bible salesman would steal Hulga’s leg at the end of the story?”
I felt that that Joy/Hulga was going to get her leg taken all along, due to the fact the Bible salesman kept mentioning he wanted to see where her prosthetic came off. The Bible salesman introduced himself as a young christian and a good country person, which was misleading to Hulga since she took him for a simple boy. In the end he opened a hollow bible with all the means for sinning. All represents that he was not the good christian she thought and was being decieved the whole time.
Definitely a hint, it was all too weird that he wanted to get her alone on a walk, and then start to romance her. It was very strange that they only just met the day before and she put so much trust into him and thought so highly of him, afterall he was only 19 yrs old. Ridiculous of her if you ask me. But she definitely deserved it because she used him to only make herself feel better, because she doesn’t even love herself and thrives on the little positive attention she can get. Although I couldn’t quite catch until almost the end what the boy wanted, right at the ‘woods line’ when he had kissed her so early on (1403).
I think their was kind of a hint that the bible salesman would steal hulgas leg at the end of the story just becuase of all the suspiscion there was.
I think the common theme amoungst all the stories is The Broken American dream. These stories were written in a time right after or during WWII at a time when the average American was confused about their identity and questioning that of their government. I think that it is very apparent in these stories in the way the characters act, or their demeanor.
In Eudora Welty’s ‘Petrified Man’ the ladies in the beauty parlor are nothing but gossip, and trying to prove one might be better than other. At least in Mrs.Fletcher’s case it’s about ‘one-uping’ the next. She is always mentioning “Mr.Fletcher can’t do a thing with me……If he so much as raises his voice against me, he knows” (1151) and so on. Everytime Leota says something about her husband and Mr.Pike she has something about Mr.Fletcher that is ‘dreamy’, so to say, about a man in that era. The ladies do all the work and the men are trying to find work. In a time when the men went away to war, the women had to take over and get jobs to compensate. I also agree with Shadia that even though they are in a beauty shop, they’re nothing but UGLY.
In John Cheever’s ‘The Swimmer’ the main theme is definitely about the broken American dream and spending your whole life working towards that just to find yourself disappointed. He isn’t actually swimming in all of his neighbors pools, he doesn’t even live in the neighborhood anymore, maybe not even alive. Ned Merrill is accounting for his whole life in various Sunday activities, that to the rich seem most important but in reality are very mundane and empty; “They were the sort of people who discussed the price of things at cocktails, exchanged [stock] market tips” (1239). Although these are Ned’s neighbors how familiar are they really to him and him to them? “Mrs. Hammer, looking up from her roses, saw him swim by although she wasn’t quite sure who it was” (1235), and Ned is always very forgetful of his neighbors lives. It defintely seems like more time is passing than the Cheever tries to make you believe.
The theme of death in this story is also very interesting to look at. Think of hell, and re-read the story and look at all the weird conotations towards it.
In Flannery O’Conner’s ‘Good Country Poeple’ the American dream theme here is apparent with the mother’s lack of acknowledgment to anything she is doing is wrong, or that anything is actually wrong. She doesn’t believe her daughter is a grown woman, 32 years old and “here she went about all day in a six-year-old skirt and a yellow sweat shirt with a faded cowboy on a horse embossed on it” (1397). It’s the whole attitude if I believe it’ not happening it isn’t. Same as with the boy selling bibles, Mrs.Hopewell thinks he’s just “the salt of the Earth” (1398). When in reality he doesn’t care anything about the bible or god, the boy has “been believing in nothing since the day I [he] was born” (1407). The boy lied about everything and then stole her daughter, Joy’s (Hulga), leg. But the daughter was also falling into the same disbelieving personality as her mother “she had gone and changed the beautiful name, Joy” (1395).
Everybody knows everybody in their own little world or so they think.
How do you think the gossip and betrayel of your neighbors influences the American dream?
Do you ever believe the American dream is acheivable? Because aren’t the rich always lonely and the hard-working struggling always suffering?
I think that as much as one likes to admit they try and help another: the only real person each and every one of us trusts and believs in fully is ourselves, so we always end up doing whatever we want instead of the advice given by others.
It’s okay though, because life always ends and the world always rejuvenates! Lol (blog humor)
I agree the ladies in ” Petrified Man” gossip a lot. Mrs. Fletcher did do it for another reason.
Hello,
The Swimmer to me was a story about getting caught up in the life. I feel like this story would have been great to tie into my research paper that dealt with that same life. When I read the line, “It was probably the first time in his adult life that he had ever cried” (1240) I felt pretty bad for the first time, I understand how much it must mean to him to cry, crying is self pity and some people rarely ever cry and feel sorry for themselves, so this kodak moment in this man’s life was emotional to me. In summary the theme of story which is the life they talk about is seductively envisioned by many men but never gives back what they are owed. Instead it leaves them sick and abandoned in the winter, going home to shambles…
In Eudora Wilder’s Petrified Man, she writes about Leota the main character. Her attitude in story was pretty disgusting to me. This lady can’t appreciate anything for shit that happens in her life or see how she can be happy for other people that she “should” care for, for example her friend Mrs Pike doesn’t a friend’s regard when she is rewarded after doing a good deed. Like for real lady, care about someone else for a change and your life might be better jeez. I thought that was a main point of that story, her personality was constantly shining through out the story and I think it was to make the audience disrespect her and not act the way she does without actually saying that is what she means or directly implying it.
The theme of Good Country People is pretty obvious. It is to get you to believe that conservatives are better and then takes a twist which turns the guy into a pedofile conservative, and then finally turns again to bring him into godless territory, eventually leaving people from all these different forms of subjugation severed of the safety they feel in their system of beliefs. I think this is totally interesting however what is more interesting to me is the fact that Hulga thinks shes so grown and independent, A rebel from her mother, yet she lives with her mom and almost falls for the first player that comes into her life. I think this is a good representation of how quite a few women leave themselves so vulnerable because they are unsure of themselves, whether it is her mother’s fault or her own is up to you.
Vik
These stories were very different from the others we have read. The stories seem to be in the same time frame 1940’s – 1950’s and they were all in small towns. I found that each story had a theme of people coping with reality.
The “Petrified Man” by Eudora Welty is mainly about these two women which all they do is gossip in a beauty parlor, Loeta the hair stylist and Mrs. Fletcher her client. Mrs. Pike is the subject on the spotlight for this story. Mrs. Pike was envied by these two women. Mrs. Fletcher was so worried about her looks that she did not want her unborn baby. Mrs. Fletcher stated to Loeta “well! I’m almost tempted not to have this one” (Welty 1151). Symbolized self- consciousness, by taking her looks over the unborn child.
The “Swimmer” by John Cheever was unexpected. To me all Neddy did was drink and swim. However, the alcohol was a symbolism of fear and trying to get rid of something from the past, or drink away his sadness. Neddy swims in the Westerhazy’s pool, Hammer’s pool, Levy’s pool, and so forth. As it went on he went back to each pool asked for a drink, but rejection hit him. He felt unwelcomed just because a drink was not given to him. I also feel a symbol of remorse towards his drinking and he thinking it is a gesture from people.
The “Good Country People” by Flannery O’ Connor this story is very judgmental. “She continued to call her Joy to which the girl responded but in a purely mechanical way” (1396). Changing her name from Joy to Hulga showed dissatisfaction of her life. Multi personalities took place in this story as well for example Mrs. Hopewell and friends. This story seemed very gloomy and upsetting from the start.
These stories do represent American Identity because of their greed for money and looks.
Did anyone find any other symbolism or themes that I did not mention?
Other themes that I found were:
– The passage of time
– The battle of superiority between the sexes
– The stereotyping of classes
A common theme in this week’s readings is that what someone perceives reality to be is not always what it actually is. In “The Swimmer” by John Cheever, the main character Neddy Merrill, believes that his life is perfect, when in actuality it is not. This is evident in the statement, “His life was not confining and the delight he took in this observation could not be explained by its suggestion of escape.” (Cheever 1234) The reader of this story is led to believe that Neddy is a happy man that is about to undertake an adventure. Neddy is going to go home by swimming in the pools that are on his route home. But, as he swims from pool to pool, we are given bits of information that show that what he perceives is not reality. For example, when he gets to the Lindley’s home he talking about their horses as if they still have them, but in reality they haven’t had horses for a while, “he was surprised to find it overgrown with grass and all the jumps dismantled.” (Cheever 1236) Another example is when he goes to the Sachs’ pool. Neddy asks Helen Sachs for a drink and she responds, “but there hasn’t been anything in this house to drink since Eric’s operation”. (Cheever 1238) Neddy is unaware that his friend Eric had an operation a long time ago (“he saw three pale, sutured scars”) (Cheever 1238). The end of the story has the most shocking example that what Neddy perceives as reality is not as it really is. This is when he finally makes it home only to realize that the house has been empty for a while, “He shouted, pounded on the door, tried to force it with his shoulder, and then, looking in at the windows, saw that the place was empty.” (Cheever 1241)
Just like “The Swimmer”, perceptions don’t match reality in the “Petrified Man” by Eudora Welty. We are lead to believe that Mrs. Fletcher and Leota are friends. Mrs. Fletcher willingly visits Leota’s salon, not once but twice to have her hair done. However, Leota makes comments to Mrs. Fletcher that are hurtful. For example, Leota makes a comment about seeing Siamese twins at the freak show. Then she tells Mrs. Fletcher that “their parents was first cousins an all like that.” (Welty 1152) Leota is being mean by talking about birth defects to a pregnant woman. It seems that Mrs. Fletcher feels that Leota is insinuating that she and her husband might be related because Mrs. Fletcher defensively replies, “Me and Mr Fletcher aren’t one speck of kin”. (Welty 1152) In addition to saying things that are mentally hurtful to Mrs. Fletcher, Leota is also physically hurtful. This is evident right from the beginning of the story when Leota presses “into Mrs. Fletcher’s scalp with strong red-nailed fingers.” (Welty 1149) Another example is “Leota was almost choking her with the cloth, pinning it so tight, and she couldn’t speak clearly.” (Welty 1154) Another perception that was not reality, was that the petrified man in the freak show was real. Leota tells Mrs. Fletcher details about the petrified man that sound as if she is had experienced it firsthand, “But see – his food, he eats it, and it goes down, see, and then he digests it and it got to his joints and before you can say “Jack Robinson”, it’s stone.” (Welty 1152) However, the reality was that the petrified man was actually a rapist that was hiding out in the freak show. The ending of “Petrified Man” also has a shocking incident that shows that perceptions don’t match reality. There are instances throughout the story that elude to the fact that the women are doing well financially since Mrs. Fletcher’s husband and Leota’s boyfriend, Fred, do not work. However, the last statement made by the child, Billy Boy, reveals that the women’s perceptions of themselves are not reality, “If you’re so smart, why ain’t you rich?” (Welty 1158)
In “Good Country People” by Flannery O’Conner the perception that country people are honest and good is shattered. Throughout the story, Mrs. Hopewell refers fondly to country people. This is evident when she said, “good country people are the salt of the earth!” (O’Connor 1398) and “Why, I think there aren’t enough good country people in the world! I think that’s what’s wrong with it!” (O’Connor 1399). We are led to believe that the bible salesman, Manley Pointer, is a good country boy who is honest, shy, and trustworthy. Even Mrs. Hopewell’s well educated daughter Joy/Helga believes that Manley is “good country people”, and is fooled by his sincerity. However, by the end of the story we realize that Manley Pointer, who represents “good country people” turns out to be far from the truth. Our perception of “good country people” does not match reality. Manley takes advantage of Joy/Helga, and her perception is also shattered. However, the story ends with Mrs. Hopewell unaware that her perception was not reality, “He was so simple, but I guess the world would be better off if we were all that simple.” (’Connor 1407)
My favorite reading was “Good Country People” by Flannery O’Conner; this story has various assumptions being thrown around. One of the first assumptions is Joy, who is “a large blonde girl who had an artificial leg” and “she was thirty-two years old and highly educated” thus in this time and to her mother meant she needed to be sheltered and different from other ladies her age (O’Conner 1394). A stereotype in “Good Country People” is of the Bible salesmen, Pointer; Mrs. Hopewell based his character on him being from the country, “good country people are the salt of the earth” (O’Conner 1398)! Of course the deception is that the Bible salesmen is really a con-artist who goes from place to place preying on the weak, such as the glass eye he retrieved prior to taking Hulga’s wooden leg.
“The Swimmer” and “Petrified Man” are my two least favorites but ironically the titles of the stories are a misfit that suits them well. In “The Swimmer” by John Cheever, Neddy , the main character is in a fantasy world believing he is actually swimming across the country where in fact he only makes it about four miles from his home. In reality the only factual part of his life is he is swimming and running throw his friends pools and yards. His family is not waiting his arrival home, he no longer has the finances he once had and no longer has the status he believes he still does. At the end of the story he realizes he was running away from something, the truth, his family, friends, and money was all gone as he “look[ed] in at the windows, [and] saw that the place was empty” (Cheever 1241). Also in “Petrified Man”, the story is ironic because it revolves around a parlor of working women who gossip endlessly; while the husbands sit home and are terrified of the women. The women have so much control over the husbands, that when they are told to do something they do so like with Mr. Fred “I’m sick of Fred. I told him to go over to Vicksburg” (Welty 1155) and he did so.
I agree with the commonality between the stories are the perception of the characters especially in “Good Country People” when the pretended romance takes place and the shit hit the fan and it turns out to be a bamboozlement. Hulga perception was blinded by the fact that someone could actually be interested in her.
In “Petrified Man” there appears to be a major theme surrounding jealousy and what it does to people. Early on in the story Leota has nothing but good things to say about Mrs. Pike and her son Billy Boy. Even when Mrs. Fletcher becomes agitated with Mrs. Pike for having spread word of her pregnancy Leota defends her. However, Once Mrs. Pike earns the $500 reward for turning in the Petrified man, her Leota’s disposition abruptly changes. She blatantly resents Mrs. Pike for having noticed the true identity of the Petrified man and openly displays this in both her language when discussing Mrs. Pike towards the end of the story as well as in her actions when by paddling Billy Boy.
In “The Swimmer”, Neddy swims through the pools in his neighborhood. This is actually being used to symbolize the passage of time and how it is an inevitable part of life. He tried to ignore the fact that time was passing and people were changing. His mistress asked him “will you ever grow up?” and the people whom he once scorned were now scorning him. Neddy was so good at denying the reality that time was passing and that things were changing, that only once he was left in a dark empty house alone had he come to realize the error of his ways. His swim through the pools symbolized this passage of time.
In “Good Country people” nobody is who they appear to be. Joy changes her name to Hulga because it is the ugliest name she can think of. This is because of the way she views herself as well has how other may view her. The same is true for Manley Pointer whom appears to be a good guy, well dressed and selling bibles. However, we quickly discover that this is nothing more than a disguise for is evil ways. Manley shows his true colors when he seduces Hulga, getting her to remove her wooden leg, and then runs off with it. We can see a major theme in the story of good/innocence vs. evil as well as the influence society has on how individuals view themselves.
All these stories have different underlying themes however the all contribute to the American identity in relatively similar manners. They all tend of have very vain and judgmental mindsets. It is continually shown how concerned all the characters are with wealth, beauty, and the opinions others have of them. These traits seem to play a big influence in how the stories unfold throughout.
I agree that in all the stories everybody was very judgmental towards each other. They were all quick to judge one another but in the end they end up really seeing who one another is. This happens in life all the time. Do you think it has gotten worse over the years (judgement)?
I do belive judgment has gotten worse and will continue to do so. This is because with modern methods of communication an individuals judgement can now reach hundreds of people in a matter of seconds. I work in an industry where first impressions can set the mood for an entire customer interaction. A long time ago a poor interaction may result in the loss of one customer and maybe some of their close friends. Today with social sites such as facebook that interaction can now reach hundreds of people in a matter of seconds and could severly hurt the company. As our ability to communicate continues to advance, more and more people will be able to share their judgments with each other. This means that they have a greater impact today then ever before.
First I want to talk about Good Country People. I think the story makes a lot of emphasis on the real identity of the people… something like double contentiousness. At the end she realizes that the man who she though was a “good country people” was just a “player…and the author through the story allays uses phrases like: “first time in her life she was face to face with the real innocence”(O’Connor 1404), and some other that In my opinion reflect a double side in life.
Then Hulga was always acting like a child and she was never spouse to be like that and I think she was kinda crazzy…
The Swimmer is one of the most weird stories I have ever read. He was just swimming in all the pools of his neighborhood because he has a high social standard and then they began telling all the life of the persons that are the owners of those pools and the relationship they have with Neddy…. Really weird … I guess there is also a relationship between these stories because both end up the same … with the same I mean with the character realizing that he was wrong in the way they saw their life and other person’s life.
American identity post WW2 was on the move towards gaining civil rights for each individual, including women and blacks, and taking into account that each person thinks and acts differently. The stories read this week explain much of the American identity that was going though the process of change as more civil rights were gained by women. In the stories the authors use small town settings and twists at the end of each story to make important that everything is not what it seems.
In the “Petrified Man” by Eudora Welty the women in the story were the ones doing all the work while the men stayed home, which for the time period it explains how women are becoming independent from man. Just like in “Good Country People” by Flannery O’Connor when Hulga had her fake leg attached she was free to do as she pleased but when she was “without the leg she felt entirely dependent on him [the bible salesmen]” (1406). This is an analogy of how women in this changing time would be vulnerable to men’s power. On the other hand the petrified man in Welty’s story used to be in control of women and now “he’s turning to stone”, which the women in the story relate to their jobless husbands (1152). For this time period it is also not the norm for women to be working while the men stay at home and relax.
Another theme I found arising in all of the stories is that people in society rather hide the truth than be honest to others of the reality. In “The Swimmer” by John Cheever, Neddy the main character was continuously “needed a drink” to suppress the reality of losing his home and not being apart of the cookie cutter lifestyle any longer. The neighbors played along with him when he clearly stated he did not remember selling his home and losing his children, and his wife as well just blew off the fact he said he was swimming home when there was no home to go to. At each of the neighbors homes he also was received with a different welcoming, some happy to see him, some honest (the Halloran’s, so called communists), and the fake people ( the Biswangers). Being in his bathing suit and swimming around the neighborhood pools he was “exposed to all kinds of ridicule, he seemed pitiful. He had known when he started that this was part of the journey” (Cheever 1237). This explains how time has changed and he was welcoming the changes and misfortunes to show, and not suppress his memory with fallacy. In “Good Country People” Mrs.Hopewell was embarrased of her daughter and “could not say, ‘My daughter is an atheist and won’t let me keep the Bible in the parlor'”, instead she lied to gain the speak of the christian country boy ( O’Connor 1398). She rather lie to a perfect stranger than to explain the reality of her household, this can be to avoid a new conversation but at the same time cause bad judgment against her and her daughter. Being an atheist or communist in these times of society was out of the norm, especially in such small towns. In “Petrified Man” Mrs. Flecther was pregnant but wasn’t ready to have a baby and in debate of getting an abortion. The mere fact that someone knew she was pregnant now and “if a certain part hadn’t found it out and spread it around, it wouldn’t be too late” for her to get an abortion (Welty 1154). Now that people know she is pregnant she could not get an abortion since it is against societies grain and she would be talked about negatively, which she rather not be thought of like that.
The American identity of the past as people hiding from society the realities of life choices is not much different from todays society. Though much has changed, women have more rights and people are known for being different and all having misfortunes, still Americans hold back truth of mishaps to others to not show weakness. So my question is that if people keep putting on an act of what is normal and no one is ever really normal, than what is the need for laws to enforce a society that believes they are normal?
The commonality that I found in all three stories is that people in general care about what is visible to others and not what they have to see when they look in the mirror. All three storys expose how much the charachters allow their own blindness and others opinions of us run/ ruin their lives.Sadly there aren’t to many notable differences from “The Southern Renaissance” to modern times in terms of peoples mentalities towards image and ignorance. These stories make America seem as though it is full of ignorant, self absorbed, selfish people. That is not true.
In Eudora Welty’s “Petrified Man” we see how the women talk about one another and to one another. There is little to no respect between the women ” ‘I bet she needs one,’ said Mrs. Fletcher, letting the swing-door fly back against Leota. ‘Oh pardon me’ ” (pg 1154) and between generations. Every word said and action taken seems completley superficial. Also, they equated money with intellegance. “If you’re so smart, why ain’t you rich” (pg 1158). This spoken by Billy Boy the child.Comments like that prove to me how “smart” they actually are.
In John Cheever’s “The Swimmer” money and happiness are one in the same. The symbolism of the summer afternoon fading into a fall evening that happens when he learns of his financial struggles illustrates his happiness leaving him and he turns confused and sad. He used to be welcomed by his neighbors and offered drinks. Now he is turned away and scowled at ” ‘If you’ve come here for money,’ she said, ‘I won’t give you another cent.’ ” (pg 1240) He has become so delusional due to his drinking and denial about his financial delima that when he pulls his exhausted body out of the pool he goes to his house and is astonished to find out his wife and kids would go out on Sunday when they don’t do that. At closer look he notices his house has broken gutters and rusty handles. Finally it hits him he is alone, old and rusty himself, and living in a totally different world “He shouted, pounded on the door, tried to force it open with his shoulder, and then, looking in at the windows, saw that the place was empty” (pg 1241).
In Flannery O’connor’s “Good Country People” she depicts a young woman who at first you feel bad for. Joy/Hulga has no faith in God, has a useless PhD, and has a fake leg. We soon come to see her for her true colors. She is concieded and thinks she is superior to everone, also quite spiteful seeing as she changed her name to the ugliest one she could think of. When she falls for the salesman’s tricks and is made to feel vulnerable and scared. Money isn’t the problem in this story, it is false identity though, it comes in a different form than the other two stories. She let him in because she didn’t want to look rude even though she is, he is not who he seems to be at all ” ‘ I hope you don’t think’ he said in a lofty indignant tone, ‘that I believe in that crap! I may sell bibles but I know which end is upand I wasn’t born yesterday and I know where I’m going’ ” (pg 1406), and clearly not everyone there is “good country people”.
Do you think that the women in “Petrified Man” are still a good example of what women want to be today? Since media has so many “Real Houswives” shows are we pouring salt into our own wounds?
Do you think that the excessive use of alcohol in “The Swimmer” is meant to make him look like part of high or low society?
What is the most symbolic aspect in “Good Country People”, the Bible, her leg, or his breifcase?
I do believe we are pouring salt in our own wounds. To me Real Houswives shows are not what most women lives are all about. Most women have jobs and take care of their kids and house. Not all women sit around and go to the beauty parlor and gossip.
Mary Ellen, Do you think in the Swimmer that the main character’s life is transformed throughout the story or that he had already been through tremendous disappointment and now wishes to express himself through the bottom of the glass as @Kaysie Raimundi said in her analysis? This whole bit had me a little confused and could really change the story depending on what the real nature of the story is.
In the story the “Petrified Man” All they do is gossip about other people and compare themselves . this story is similar to our everyday American life. I like how at the end of the story how Billy Bob tells them how he feels. “Billy Bob stomped through the group of wild haired ladies and went out the door, but flung back the words.”If You’re so smart, why aint you rich?” (Williams 1158).
In the story “The Swimmer” it seems that he is hiding his feelings and not wanting to grow up. “He needed a drink. Whiskey would warm him, pick him up, carry him through the last of his journey, refresh his feeling that it was original and valorous to swim across the country”(Cheever 1238).And he tries to escape it by drinking.
In the “Good Country People” I read that there is a understanding of good vs evil . “ Mrs. Hopewell could not say, “My daughter is an atheist and won’t let me keep the Bible in the parlor. All these stories seem to have in common they are all hiding behind their true identity, gossiping, and lying and hiding true feelings. Which is what Americans still do today. Why do you think people hide their true feelings and true selves?
i have not thought about it or notice those details, but yes in all the stoies we all depend on what people say and it mihgt affect us, but we find a way to esacpe what really hurts us, either by drinking like in the story the swimmer, or maybe in the hair salon trying to hide their economical problems by just going to the salon and trying to look like they are rich.
In “Petrified Man” by Eudora Welty this story represented the stereotype of a beauty parlor. Women gossiping about each other while getting the hair done. In every movie you watch if there is a scene in a beauty shop there is going to be gossip between the stylist and customer. Welty this just that in her short story “Petrified Man”. During the entire short story Leota was entertaining Mrs. Fletcher with previous gossip she had done with a friend. Welty stated in “Petrified Man” that “Mrs. Pike, she give you a good look – she’s very observant, a good judge of character, I bet you another Jax that lady’s three months on the way”(1151). This is a conversation that was between Mrs. Pike and Leota about Mrs. Fletcher being pregnant.
“The Swimmer” by John Cheever is an interesting story. I really did not understand the story until I read it again. I realize this story has a lot to do with a man who has lost everything trying to find his way. Cheever stated “had his gifted for concealing painful facts let him forget that he had sold his house, that his children were in trouble, and that his friends had been ill?(1239). This shows that Neddy has lost everything and he is trying to swim across the country to forget what is going around in his life.
“Good Country People” by Flannery O’Connor is a story about insecure women. I believe Joy/Hulga was insecure that why she was so rude. Joy lost her leg in a shoot accident so she has an artificial leg. Joy had so self confidence by her action in the story. Because her mother treated her like a baby she acted out by being rude and insensitive. O’Connor stated “thought of her as a child though she was thirty-two” (1394). Joy just wanted freedom and needed to be treated as an adult. As a result, when the sells man came by she acted they way she did. It was not out of love but for freedom. O’Connor stated “the kiss, which had more pleasure than feelings”(1403). This proves Joy just wanted to be treated as an adult that was her reason of talking to the gentleman.
All three stories have something in common like the American Dream that we all are still pursuing this days. Especially when we are struggling with the economy. Like in the story Petrified Man, Eudora Talks about this two main ladies in a salon talking about their life and how people do notice them. They are more worry about what other people think about them than what really happens around them like when Mrs. Leota and Mrs. Fletcher are talking about their husbands “ my husband is 5 and 9 and half” then Mrs. Fletcher answer “well Mine is 5 10” They also are talking about the guy called the petrified men how he is this guy that is a freak saying that he can’t move but in all reality he is this guy that can and has had charges and he is a wanted person, like all reality don’t we go through the same problem day by day hearing the news by someone getting rape, or we worry about what people say about us and we see all this girls and guys getting surgeries to change their appearance suppose ably for the better but in all reality all we are doing is just destroy our body and looking more like a doll.
In the Swimmer is this guy that has his life all relax, has it all one day and then when he comes back home it’s all gone and has nothing but just an abandon house. “What do you want? She Asked” Neil response “Im swimming across the Country” Neil is just going across the country asking for money. Like when they were invited to the cocktail everyone was talking about how they had it all and the next day it was all gone. Like I have said earlier, right now we are going through an economical crisis where at one time people had bunch of houses stock and has lost it all. This reflects on how we have struggle in the past and we are still seeing this problem. We all go around looking for money , looking where we will do better and seeing who can help us but yet friends and family would say that is time for us to start learning how to earn the money the right way.
And on the story “Good Country People” we see this story where Joy the daughter of Hopewell is this stub burn girl that does not appreciate what her mom has done for her. Joy is missing a leg, I think it represents the struggles in life, it can mean how we fall but somehow we manage to get up and keep walking towards our future to fight for what we want. Like joy had always wanted to change her name to Hulga. I think it is funny how the names have change from joy being joyful and her wanting to change her name, I think this reflects how she does not have a leg and now she wants to change it because of the accident she had and now her life has change from being Joyful to miserable. And the mom’s name Hopewell, I think is is just meaning hope for her daughter to one day change to be more appreciative.
All three stories show how we all focus and struggle in life, how we care so much on how people see us, and think about us. We all fight for the American dream which I believe is having all the opportunities in life and focusing on doing better, but yet we are stub burn and always like to see things harder than what they really are
In the stories we read this week there were some thematic themes that were the same among each. In particular in “Petrified Man” and “Good Country People” the theme I saw represented was that sometimes we want to see the best in people when really all there is is bad. In “Petrified Man” Mrs.Fletcher really saw nothing bad in Mrs. Pike until she found out that Mrs. Pike had said that “[she] was pregnant than a bat” (Welty 1151). Sometimes all it takes is one little incident for all of the goodness you see in one person to disappear. Also, is the same with the petrified man, Mr.Petrie, and Mrs. Pike. She would see him all the time at the freak show and never once noticed that he was the man that raped the four girls. Once she found that out she turned him in. In “Good Country People”, Mrs. Hopewell tries so hard everyday to force herself to believe that her daughter Joy (Hulga) is/could be a pretty girl that is polite but in reality Hulga will never be that way. In Mrs.Hopewell’s head “every year she grew less like other people and more like herself– bloated, rude, and squint-eyed” (O’Connor 1397). Even more so the relationship between the Christian guy and Hulga exemplifies my theme. Hulga truly believed that he wanted to take her out and get to know her but in reality he just wanted a good story under his belt. In the barn when he wouldn’t give her leg back she cried that he was supposed to be a good Christian boy and then he spat back “i hope you don’t think that I believe in that crap! I may sell Bibles but I know which end is up and I wasn’t born yesterday and I know where I’m going!” (O’Connor 1406). One little incident and your whole opinion of someone can change.
In Eudora Welty’s “Petrified man” the author deals with the theme of human curiosity related to the unknown. The story’s setting is a hair saloon, which is most of the times associated to woman and in small towns is where all the gossips are told and spread. Leota is fascinating about telling other people about her own life, “Does Mrs. Pike know everthing about you already?” (1153) and gossips about other people, for example, when Mrs. Fletcher finds out Leota told Mrs. Pike about her pregnancy. It is also very interesting about Leota’s character the fact she is never satisfied with her life and with what she has. She is not satisfied with her husband, and she envies Mrs. Pike when she wins the money. This story shows a different perspective about the couples relationships that we were used to see on the other stories. The woman here seem to be very independent “Mr. Fletcher can’t do a thing with me”(1151) , and they seem to work harder that their husbands.
In “Good Country People” by Flannery O’Connor, we see Joy, who as soon as she turned 21 changed her name to “the ugliest name in any language” (1395). She lost her leg in an accident therefore she has a wooden leg. She thinks she is smarter that everybody else including her own mother. This self confidence is probably a consequence of the insecurity that she feels for being treated as a child by her mother, “She thought of her still as a child” (1395). The theme I found in this story was the search for ones identity. Hulga/Joy only discovers her fears and weakness when she falls in love.
“The Swimmer” by John Cheever is also a story about search for identity. Neddy Merrill is at the beginning of the story, presented with a very good life, stable financial conditions and a good family with a wife and “four beautiful daughters” (1234). One day he starts swimming back to his home and starts thinking about his life. he realizes he had rejected many of his “friends” invitations and had distanced himself from them. He then realizes that he thought too much of himself and he was not as young as he used to be, he did not have his family anymore and not even his house.
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